Razgovor:Marko Polo

Mjesto rođenja

Koji su dokazi da je rođen na Korčuli?

Pozdrav --zombieater 16:17, 25. prosinca 2005. (CET)

Na engleskom jeziku zove se "The Book Of General Ignorance" (2006). 21-va stranica, kažu da je rođen Marko Pilić, 1254. Evlekis.— Prethodni nepotpisani komentar napisao je 88.106.41.195 (razgovor • doprinosi) 13:03, 23. studenog 2006.

en:Marco Polo was born in Venice. He was Venetian, he described himself as Venetian.— Prethodni nepotpisani komentar napisao je 89.97.241.138 (razgovor • doprinosi) 15:45, 24. travnja 2007.

Even if he would born in Curzola, at that time was Curzola venetian as the hole Dalmatia and many of people living there were venetian. Pitagora was born in Sicily. At that time was many towns in Sicily greeks (Magna Graecia). No one says that Pitagora was italian. Marco Polo was Venetian, also Italian.— Prethodni nepotpisani komentar napisao je 62.88.128.21 (razgovor • doprinosi) 12:26, 27. svibnja 2009.

It was Archimedes, not Pitagora born in Sicily (Syracuse). Ataturk, the Turkish president, was born in Greece. Was he greek?— Prethodni nepotpisani komentar napisao je 62.88.128.21 (razgovor • doprinosi) 12:33, 27. svibnja 2009.

-Nikola Tesla

as for Nikola Tesla i propose something like: born in the venetian republic now part of the modern croatia --Adc99cc33 (razgovor) 11:12, 15. srpnja 2009. (CEST)

Kod LZMK i u Proleksisovoj enciklopediji stoji Marco Polo. --Roberta F. 22:52, 15. kolovoza 2009. (CEST)

Kategorija

Kategorija:Hrvatski istraživači is wrong. The right one is: Kategorija:Talijanski istraživači. You may like it or not, but that's all. --84.221.209.181 02:04, 30. travnja 2010. (CEST)

Marco Polo was an Croatian explorer. He was born in Korčula and church books said so, but Korčula was under Venetian rule. We have a lot of evidences that he was born in Korčula.

(poruka bez naslova)

This whole thing is ridicolous. Croatia is trying with all possible means to build-up their history from scrap. Describing Marco Polo as Italian or Croatian is equally wrong because the concept of nation started only in the XIX century. Still the history of Venice and of the Venetian empire is closer for a number of reasons to the history of Italy. But how can I convince Croatian of this? No way guys, you are too nationalist. There is nothing I could do to convince you, indeed I do not even try. Concerning the birthplace the prevalent belief is that he is from Venice. The rules of Wikipedia would suggest to report the most prevalent source in the main text and to report the alternative opinions. But again this excludes the issue of the nationalism of some countries. --Dontbother (razgovor) 21:53, 1. studenoga 2011. (CET)

Dontbother, Croatia has its own history and it don't need to build it. Croatia were kingdom in 760s. It have a lot of famous persons, including Nikola Tesla, Marco Polo, and it have a lot of inventions like fingerprint, torpedo, ... 95.168.118.76 18:24, 1. lipnja 2023. (CEST)

Too many attacks in the message above.
"Prevalent belief" is just a prevalent belief.
Also, Croatian is not the same thing as Croat.
"Most prevalent source" does not mean that that source is correct. What should small nations and peoples do? Give up on their science and working on wikiprojects on their languages, because the most available and most distributed literature is not in their language? The sources on "big" languages are following the official state policy of their countries, they are neutral only when that does not affect the interests of their country. When small peoples defend their scarce piece of land, their cultural heritage, language, jobs, then the sources from "big countries" say that those small nations are "too nationalist, xenophobic, chauvinists, closed towards world, blockheads", but when big countries conquer small nations' teritories, imposing the govermnents, impose their language, usurpate small nations' culture (and deny/reduce/minimize their cultural heritage), ruin others' jobs, then their sources say that "they were liberating, bringing the civilizations, spreading the democracy, spreading their rich culture, spreaders human rights, opening the society to the world". Kubura (razgovor) 03:37, 3. studenog 2011. (CET)

Pijte infuzija bilja. Živčani nije dobro za štitnjače. This will also help you to sleep during the night.

Kubura, the research of the truth as nothing to do with the size of the countries. We are not speaking of imperialism, colonialism or relocating plants in the Third-World countries. We are just discussing here about the birthplace of an historical person. You might agree that Wikipedia is not the right place for blogging opinions about politics. Indeed, prevalent sources are most important, indeed. Of course this open the discussion but please remember that Wikipedia is an encyclopedia so necessarily the most available and read sources (that I recognize can be manipulated) are the most important. Wikipedia is just an encyclopedia (based on 2nd and 3rd level sources), when you contribute to wikipedia you are not making a fight. I make an example, there are some historians (minor indeed) that believe that Cristoforo Colombo was born in Corsica. But fr.wiki does not report Corsica as Colombo's birthplace. But if you think that Croatia has been historically oppressed and its culture dominated and persecuted by the Venetian, the Austrian and what is the most by the Italian there is nothing I can do. But do not forget that the most the articles on hr.wiki will be balanced, the most the people will trust them. --Dontbother (razgovor) 15:16, 4. studenog 2011. (CET)

Zadnja na ovu temu

U članku lijepo piše: "Marko Polo (Korčula?/Mletci?, 1254. - Mletci, 8. siječnja 1324.), mletački trgovac", i dok povijesne znanosti ne otkriju nove dokaze, mudrovanja na ovu ili onu stranu biti će brisana po kratkome postupku.

• Gdje je rođen ne zna se zasigurno, zato u članku pišu oba moguća mjesta rođenja. Ako netko ima knjigu u kojoj piše samo Korčula ili samo Venecija(Mleci) i zato želi da piše samo jedno, onda je neinformiran i treba ga uputiti da postoje i drugi izvori.
• Ako je plovio pod mletačkom zastavom, onda je mletački trgovac.
• Nalazi se u kategoriji Hrvatski istraživači, što je u skladu s mogućim mjestom rođenja i s obiteljskim grbom. Ovo hrvatski ne odnosi se na naciju (koje tada nisu postojale u današnjem smislu), nego na ozemlje.

Želim spomenuti da iako nacije u današnjem smislu nisu postojale u srednjem vijeku i početkom novoga vijeka, Judita Marka Marulića iz 1501. godine je u versih harvacki složena. Pametnome dovoljno. SpeedyGonsales 01:27, 22. kolovoza 2012. (CEST)

Marco se sigurno nije rodio u Veneciji jer i sam piše da je u Veneciju prvi put došao sa stricem kad mu je bilo 8 godina. Obitelj Polo ne postoji prije toga u Veneciji ali postoji u hrvatskom gradu Šibeniku. Smatra se da dolazi iz korčulanskog ogranka šibenskih plemića Pola. To znači da je bez obzira na nepostojanje nacije - riječ o hrvatskoj etničkoj skupini! Tekst kaže da se sigurno rodio unutar teritorija Mletačke republike?! Odakle to? Njegovo mjesto rođenja je nepoznato. Ako se i rodio na Korčuli te godina Korčula nije bila mletački teritorij jer su Zorziji istjerani sa Korčule koju godinu prije, a uspjeli su je vratiti u svoj posjed pa tako i u mletački teritorij nekoliko godina poslije. Po svemu sudeći upravo se nije rodio u Mletačkoj republici i 100% ne kao Mlečanin jer su se Poli u Veneciji deklarirali kao Poli iz Dalmacije.89.201.168.37 12:41, 28. veljače 2014. (CET)

What you're saying is ridiculous. There are no real sources for believing he was born in Korcula. Where did you stumbple upon the information that he said he first visited venice when he was 8 years old? If he was born in croatia then bosnians have pyramids and stone henge was built by an alien civilization. Oh and also chemtrails are real. — Prethodni nepotpisani komentar napisao je 93.103.78.229 (razgovor • doprinosi) 18:05, 26. travnja 2015.

He was Venetian

1: There's no evidence that Marco Polo was born in Korcula (his father Niccolò and his uncle Matteo were either born in Venice). 2: Even if he was, he wasn't surely an ethnic croatian, giving his family's heritage, at best he may have been dalmatian, which is absolutely not croatian; the category "Hrvatski istraživači" is completely inappropriate, and a serious insult to my country's culture. -- Bogianen 99 (razgovor)

Bogianen, where did You get that idea? Your guessing of "absolutely not Croatian" "maybe Dalmatian" is completely wrong. The documents from the Old Venice use names of Croatia and Dalmatia as synonyms, so the old title od doges were "Croatia or Dalmatia". Old Dalmatoromans were largely assimilated into Croats, as it was case with many Italians that came to live on the Croatian coast of the Adriatic. Let's say it this way: we can not be 100% sure that he was solely Croat, but You also can not deny that, since there're records that suggest that Polo could be Croat. The matrix records of the Republic of Venice could be misleading, since many of them wrote the names of local Croats in italianized form. Being born in Italy does not make someone as Italian. In these centuries, it was not unusual that Croats were fleeing to western coast of Adriatic because of economic, political (asile or war) or escaping from the epidemics. Local archives here have records that people were fleeing on the Apeninian peninsula, and after the danger passed, they returned to Croatia. Kubura (razgovor) 05:17, 7. srpnja 2015. (CEST)

Interesting paper

Olga Orlić, The curious case of Marco Polo from Korčula: An example of invented tradition, in Journal of Marine and Island Cultures, Volume 2, Issue 1, June 2013, Pages 20-28. Perhaps some good Croatian Wikipedian could record the fact that even Croatian scholars think that the story of Marco Polo born in Korčula is a lie.--Presbite (razgovor) 15:11, 21. lipnja 2019. (CEST)

I vecchi che continuano a tornare prendono Presbite. Ho anche una fonte che dice che era cinese. Ciao --Mark7747 (razgovor) 17:40, 3. siječnja 2021. (CET)

Nationality

There are disputes about Polo's birthplace, but it is not disputed that he was born in the then Republic of Venice. Isn't it more correct to write that he was Venetian? Also, there are three sources in the lead saying he was an Italian or Venetian explorer, but none saying he was Croatian. RickySarzus (razgovor) 21:41, 4. veljače 2021. (CET)

Hello @RickySarzus! I agree that "Venetian" would probably be the most neutral way to describe Marko Polo's nationality, since Italy was not unified at that time and Croatia was under Austrian and Hungarian rule. The online version of the Croatian Encyclopedia does not mention any nationality at all, why other encyclopedias like Britannica also describe him as Venetian. I have no clue why there was even an edit war about this. Best regards, Koreanovsky (Ča–Kaj–Što?!) 17:49, 5. veljače 2021. (CET)

Exactly, it is also reported in many sources. Can you edit it? The page it's protected RickySarzus (razgovor) 20:44, 6. veljače 2021. (CET)

Disputes about Polo's birthplace? No way! From the English WIkipedia, and his autobiographic data we found in "Il Milione"

Marco Polo was born in 1254 in Venice, capital of the Venetian Republic.[10][11][12] His father, Niccolò Polo, had his household in Venice and left Marco's mother pregnant in order to travel to Asia with his brother Maffeo Polo. Their return to Italy in order to "go to Venice and visit their household" is described in The Travels of Marco Polo as follows: "...they departed from Acre and went to Negropont, and from Negropont they continued their voyage to Venice. On their arrival there, Messer Nicolas found that his wife was dead and that she had left behind her a son of fifteen years of age, whose name was Marco".[13]

--91.150.116.75 16:46, 7. veljače 2021. (CET)

Milijun

Etimologija riječi milijun kaže da potječe od talijanskoga mille i sufiksa za tvorbu uvećanica. Članak je potrebno provjeriti u slučaju da je još ovakvih gluposti u njemu. Izvor: https://www.etymonline.com/word/million Etiktov (razgovor) 21:28, 8. siječnja 2023. (CET)