Razgovor sa suradnikom:Freeszaniszlo

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Freeszaniszlo, dobro došli na Wikipediju na hrvatskom jeziku, započetu 16. veljače 2003. godine – slobodnu enciklopediju!

Pozivamo vas na sudjelovanje u rastu ove svima dostupne enciklopedije na hrvatskom standardnom jeziku.

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Ovdje su neke od stranica koje bi vam mogle pomoći:

• Wikipedija − što je Wikipedija, povijest i organizacija projekta
• Wikiusvajanje − pronađite mentora koji će vam pomoći u snalaženju na Wikipediji
• Izvori − kako uspješno činiti Wikipediju boljom!
• Slike − obvezno pročitati prije postavljanja bilo kakvih slika

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Ako želite vježbati možete to raditi na stranici za vježbanje, u slučaju da vam zatreba pomoć učinite slijedeće:

• postavite pitanje u Kafiću, odgovor će brzo stići
• spojite se na IRC (chat): #wikipedia-hr

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Svoje doprinose na člancima ne potpisujte, dok komentare na pripadajućim stranicama za razgovor, suradničkim stranicama i Kafiću molimo potpisujte tako što ćete pritisnuti gumbić ili na alatnoj vrpci ili napisati 4 tilde (tilda = 4x istovremeno tipke AltGr + tipka s brojem 1), što kod uređivanja izgleda ovako ~~~~.
Vlastitu suradničku stranicu (onu koja se zove "Suradnik:vaše ime") možete uređivati po svojoj želji u skladu s pravilima uređivanja suradničke stranice (npr. asketski ili šminkerski).

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Molimo Vas, ne stavljajte zaštićene radove bez dopuštenja! Nemojte izravno kopirati sadržaje s drugih web stranica ako nemate izričito dopuštenje. Ako imate dopuštenje, napišite to na stranici za razgovor ili jednostavno dodajte ovdje. No, obvezno to napravite prije nego započnete s pisanjem preuzetog teksta. Molimo uočite da se svi doprinosi Wikipediji smatraju dualno licencirani, pod Creative Commons Imenovanje-Dijeli pod istim uvjetima 3.0 i GFDL licencijom. Ako ne želite da se vaše pisanje nemilosrdno uređuje i slobodno raspačava, nemojte ga ovamo slati. Također nam obećavate da ćete ono što ćete napisati sami napisati, ili ćete to prepisati iz nečeg što je u javnom vlasništvu ili pod sličnom slobodnom licencijom.

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If you don't speak Croatian: This is the welcome message sent to new users of hr.wikipedia

Još jednom, dobro došli! SpeedyGonsales 15:39, 15. lipnja 2011. (CEST)

Re:Scientology

You can write your argumentation on talk page of this article. But, I think that what you wrote to me is your personal opinion about scientology (subjective opinion or propaganda for scientology), not for encyklopedia. --Flopy ^razgovor 15:59, 15. lipnja 2011. (CEST)

Hi Flopi!

Of course I do not speak Croatian, but it can still change.

This "personal opinion" stuff it is a bit rough for me to understand, because whatever you see around you in the world is based on agreements. All the physical universe is based only on agreement. Reality=Agreement. We agree that there is time, and therefore we have time. We agree that there is space and there is space, etc.

The Buddhist say for example that all the matter in the physical universe is just thought that first become energy, and then when it got compressed to very small space, it become matter. But it is just "solid thought". You can laugh on it, but all religions agree that thought is superior to matter, energy, space and time. Therefore if everybody agrees that there is nothing else than the physical universe (matter, energy, space, time), and only matter matters, than this becomes a reality, and we all become materialistic.

Now, reality is agreement, but reality has nothing to do with truth. Truth is not coming from agreement or "reality". Truth is coming from direct observation, and making your own conclusion. What is true for you it is the only truth, and nobody has the right to tell you what is the truth, or what should be your own conclusion, or what you should believe about what you have seen, etc. But the funny thing is that the ultimate truth would not have a location in space, it would be timeless, it would not contain mass or energy, it would not have a form or wavelength and it would not have an event.

For example a guy comes and writes something about Scientology, that it is like the Jedi religion (for him). This is his opinion. Then I have another opinion, and while I respect his opinion, after 13 years of careful study of Scientology and thorough observation I conclude that it has absolutely nothing to do with the Jedi religion and it is even off the topic, because it does not give any idea to the people about what is Scientology, except just further confusing them. Then is this Jedi stuff the truth, or is an opinion?

If you want to see what the philosophy of Scientology is similar to, then it is the Mahajana Buddhism and the Taoism. If you want to show what the opposite of Scientology is then it is totalitarian materialism and psychiatry. Now that gives a bit of more understanding to the people about the position of Scientology. Comparing it to the Jedi religion is just confusing the people further.

So how is this now with opinion and facts?!

ML, István

Ps.: By the way, what is your religion?

Freeszaniszlo (razgovor)

My religion is irrelevant. You are asking me private information about me. Also, wikipedia is not an internet forum and we can't have such discussions here. Tell your argumentation Razgovor:Scijentologija. --Flopy ^razgovor 19:21, 15. lipnja 2011. (CEST)

I see suddenly you can Croatian. So, you are breaking several rules in discussion with me and in editing of the article: :Wikipedija:Što ne spada u Wikipediju#Wikipedija nije mjesto za oglašavanje ili reklamiranje, Wikipedija:Nepristrano gledište or English [1] and very important Wikipedija:Ne ometajte rad Wikipedije da biste nešto dokazali. You are doing exactly this. --Flopy ^razgovor 11:51, 19. lipnja 2011. (CEST)

Dear Flopy,

"I see suddenly you can Croatian." - this is really a nasty remark. I am just pointing it out, because you keep referring to Wikipedia codes (that I am just studying up), but you as an administrator seem to not care about it at all, how do you treat others. A remark like this is really really nasty, provocative and I just do not think this is how you should treat others. I am expecting a bit more respect from you. Maybe one day you will find out that I am not such a bad guy as you want to believe now, and then how will you feel after?

Freeszaniszlo (razgovor) 18:22, 20. lipnja 2011. (CEST)

Question

I am not very experienced about the Wikipedia. I managed to edit the page without a logon, and it was reversed whatever I edited. So now I created this logon. What should I do next?

Edits are reversed if they are incorrect (in some cases), not referenced where appropriate source is necessary or sometimes by error. It's easier to have meaningful communication with registered user, but that is not necessary for correct edits to stay. If you have problems with some article - regular procedure is to write your remarks on articles talk page. Just remember that Wikipedia is encyclopedia, so non trivial statements need to be referenced by trustworthy sources, which is obligatory practice in articles in main namespace and good practice when writing remarks on talk pages. Regards! SpeedyGonsales 01:29, 16. lipnja 2011. (CEST)

1. If I write remarks on the article talk page, what will happen next? I just have a couple of corrections that I am absolutely sure they are true and correct. I added for example Scientology celebrities that I know 100% sure that they are Scientologists. Some of them are even promoting it on their web page. Others are appearing on the cover sheet of the "Celebrity" magazine of Scientology with full page interviews inside the magazine form the celebs. Some of them I met even personally or I can see them on Scientology events participating. If you are a Scientologist (like me) you know who is Scientologist and who is not without any doubt and you can evidence it at any time. Now, some people included Will Smith, but he keeps telling to the media that he is not a Scientologist. At least not yet. And this is for sure. So I mad these corrections and many others and these all got reverted. (Most likely the one who reverted did not check the validity of the information and probably did not even read all the correction just clicked to revert all of it.) So with whom I have to discuss these changes, and who will decide which changes stay? And who will do the actual edit? Can I do it myself? Who has to give permission for it? I really want to know what happens if I post something on the discussion board and then also why I cannot just simply edit it, and if somebody knows better than me, and finds mistakes in it, he could edit and introduce his changes, but not reverting every single bit I wrote. This is really rude, and it is nonsense for me. So I would like to know what is happening after I posted something on the discussion board and how it is going to become an actual edit that will not be reverted? What is the exact sequence of action?

2. The other question I have is who can reverse my edits? Anyone?! And in which grounds?

3. How do you do a referencing that it is actually acceptable. When I added for example a Scientology celebrity with an external link to his official web site, where he is promoting that he is a Scientolgist, it also got reverted. So what is an acceptable reference and where do I have to include it and how so that it can be approved or accepted?

To answer you clearly I will answer your questions not in order you put them but in logical order to keep things simple:

• Anyone can reverse your edits.
• You can get in edit war (not smart but happens sometimes), or you can be civilized and write your remarks on talk page.
• You (and all other users) editing the article have to have in mind that you are editing an encyclopedia, so encyclopedic style is preferred, not newspaper style - meaning text in article in most cases should have sense both now and in 10 or 100 years. If that is not the case, you (or whoever who add not-so-encyclopedic content) need to give sufficient explanation why is that so or excess text will be removed.

I hope this makes situation more clear. SpeedyGonsales 19:58, 17. lipnja 2011. (CEST)

Dear Speedy,

Thanks a lot for your answers! That makes it more clear of course. But now I cannot even edit the page. And nobody seems to care at all what I wrote to the Discussion page. I can totally understand this behavior, because probably I am the only Scientologist here, and for the others, it is "not their porblem" if the Scientology page or the Tom Cruise entry is messed up, is low quality, journalistic, contains incorrect incorrect information or added inapplicable black propaganda, or it is biased.

Croatia is mainly Catholic, so as long as the Catholic page looks very good, nobody is interested to make a professional Scientology page. Why should anybody?! And if the stupid Hungarian "Frreszaniszlo" wants to do something to fix it, lets label his entire efforts very quickly entirely "propaganda", let's find some mistakes in what he does, so it can jusify reverting A-L-L his changes, let's block him editing the page, and whatever he puts onto the Discussion page: we should absolutely not discuss it. Let's keep sabotaging him like this, until he gives up, or let's provoke him into some misbehavior that will justify to cancel his account and then we are safe from him forever. That is really the game that some people play here?!

Freeszaniszlo (razgovor) 18:22, 20. lipnja 2011. (CEST)

External links

Freeszaniszlo, please, do not edit the article in this [2] way. Wikipedia is not a collection of external links which can be simple found on any web search page. If you want, put some links on the articles on Wikipedia in Croatian language. All about external links you can find here. Best regards! --MaGa 09:02, 18. lipnja 2011. (CEST)

OK. Now I can anyway not edit it ...

Freeszaniszlo (razgovor)

Potpis

Pozdrav, zahvaljujemo na vašim doprinosima na stranicama za razgovor i usput, prilikom komentiranja molimo vas da se potpišete kako bi komunikacija bila uspješnija. Potpis možete napraviti upisivanjem 4 tilde: ~~~~, ili jednostavnim pritiskom na alat za potpis prikazan na jednoj od slika s desne strane. Hvala na razumijevanju.--MaGa 13:12, 19. lipnja 2011. (CEST)

OK.

Freeszaniszlo (razgovor) 18:22, 20. lipnja 2011. (CEST)

Hrvatski...

...možemo li na hrvatskom. Teško se sporazumijevam na engeskom. --Ex13 (razgovor) 11:09, 21. lipnja 2011. (CEST)

Dear Ex13, I understand that the English is hard for you, but I do not speak Croatian. I am Hungarian and the only foreign language I speak is English. I understand a couple of words in German, Spanish, Italian, Russian too. But only a few words. Use Google translator. This is also what I am using. Otherwise it is a good idea to learn English, because a lot of information in the world is only available in English.

Dragi Ex13, ja razumijem da je engleski je teško za vas, ali ja ne govorim hrvatski. Ja sam mađarskom i jedini strani jezik govorim je engleski. Razumijem par riječi na njemačkom, španjolskom, talijanskom, ruskom previše. No, samo nekoliko riječi. Koristite Google Translator. To je također ono što sam koristiti. Inače to je dobra ideja da učiti engleski, jer je puno informacija u svijetu dostupan je samo na engleskom jeziku.

Freeszaniszlo (razgovor) 13:36, 21. lipnja 2011. (CEST)

Zatrpavanje nedavnih promjena

Pozdrav, cijenimo vaše doprinose na Wikipediji i stoga vas molimo da prije nego što snimite svoje promjene na stranici uporabite tipku Prikaži kako će izgledati koja se nalazi pored tipke Sačuvaj stranicu. Ovako ćete odmah vidjeti što ste napravili i moći ispraviti eventualne pogreške. Prečestim snimanjem raznih sitnica zatrpava se stranica nedavnih promjena. Tipka je prikazana na slici desno! Ako namjeravate raditi veće izmjene ili pisati duži tekst, bolje je da prvo kopirate stari tekst stranice na svoje računalo (u Notepad ili neki drugi program), tamo ga uredite, a zatim konačnu inačicu iskopirate u prozor za izmjenu teksta stranice. Hvala na razumijevanju.--D tom 12:01, 21. lipnja 2011. (CEST)

Dear Tom, Thanks! Sometimes I have been using this "Show preview". Not always though. Sometimes I find mistakes in the text after I saved it, or I do not like the typesetting and I go back and edit it again. What does this sentence "Ovako ćete odmah vidjeti što ste napravili i moći ispraviti eventualne pogreške." mean in English? I do not speak Croatian and this is what I get back from the Google: "All too often the various shooting whatnot buries the site of recent changes."

Freeszaniszlo (razgovor) 13:46, 21. lipnja 2011. (CEST)

Stranice za razgovor

Stranice za razgovor se ne brišu, nego arhiviraju [3]. Uklanja se vandalizme i nedoličan sadržaj.
Talkpages aren't deleted, but archived. The sole thing we remove are vandalisms and the content that is not allowed to appear on them. Kubura (razgovor) 03:52, 24. lipnja 2011. (CEST)

Hi, Freeszaniszlo! The translation in English is in the second sentence in the message above. :) Kubura (razgovor) 03:38, 28. listopada 2011. (CEST)